REVIEW - Armour System

[Chèvrelier]

One of the largest possible rules changes currently on the table is a rework of the way armour works in Underworld. Before I lay out the proposal that is on the table I want to point out some of the reasons I think armour needs to change, and some of the major challenges in doing so.

• There can exist a vast disparity between the armour values of a heavily armoured and lightly armoured character.
  
• With only the slightest amount of battlefield management, PCs are able to have unlimited armour points causing an unfair inflation to the value of body damage and hard disables.
  
• Unlimited armour makes battles of attrition nearly impossible.
  
• The breach system as it exists now is largely irrelevant .
  
• Repairing armour that someone is wearing is pretty silly.
  

All that having been said, I am going to try an layout the proposal for you to comment on now. I want to make it clear that a lot of the specifics are still in discussion so if what follows seems vague in places, that is because I am trying to lay this out as openly as I can.


Armour System Proposal

1. When a player's armour is breached, the total armour value is reduced to a percentage of the current total value. The working value is 50%. This armour reduction will compound with further breaches, although a minimum value will likely be implemented. 

Example: Jim has 100 points of armour. His armour is breached in combat reducing his total armour value to 50. Jim has a smith repair his armour up to it's new max value then plunges back into the battle. Unfortunately he is soon breached again and when he returns to the smith, he is only able to be repaired up to 25 armour points.

2. Masterwork armour will resist one breach, and Legendary will resist a number of breaches.

3. A smith may take a player's armour reps to a workshop and perform a specified duration of roleplay to repair breaches, or reset the breach resistance of masterwork/Legendary Armour. There will be no PP required to do so, and will likely not cost RM either.

4. Battlefield repair can be used to quickly repair breaches or reset resists on armour that a player is wearing

5. A blacksmith refitting armour on the battlefield may only have 1 assistant which will reduce the speed at which armour is refit in combat.

6. Legendary armour will no longer add an additional point of armour per location.

[Java Aquari]

the percentile part of the Breach system will cause problems with armor with odd numbers, rather then taking 2 away from a breach, just make the number bigger if that's the case. Simple and easy to manage

[Marek]

Seeing the large downgrade to Masterwork and Legendary, will the ability to make those pieces be reduced for smiths? I mean, spending a massive amount of time (like a year or more) to make a piece of armor worth X amount of gold is rough if players get to resist a single breach once with that singular piece.

[Chèvrelier]

the percentile part of the Breach system will cause problems with armor with odd numbers, rather then taking 2 away from a breach, just make the number bigger if that's the case. Simple and easy to manage

We can easily round the percentages since they will only ever be off by 1 point. The reason we are looking at percentages is because they manage the disparity of armour values better. A static number that matters to a heavily armoured player will completely invalidate a lightly armour player.

Seeing the large downgrade to Masterwork and Legendary, will the ability to make those pieces be reduced for smiths? I mean, spending a massive amount of time (like a year or more) to make a piece of armor worth X amount of gold is rough if players get to resist a single breach once with that singular piece.

Although Masterwork will no longer be completely resistant to breaches, stopping one breach per extended combat is a much more significant bonus with the increased potency of said breaches.. Legendary is a much more significant change and I imagine there will be some balancing to be done there still, but I am not sure what direction that will go. Making Legendary armour immune to breaches entirely has been discussed, but this will widen the power gap between new and old characters tremendously since they will effectively ignore a very powerful new mechanic.

[Lilith Caia]

The first item misses the point entirely. The problem is that some people have insane amounts of armour and it gets near infinite with smiths, and they are way better than people with small amounts of armour. Having breaches be even worse than they are now disproportionally negatively effects people with small amounts of armour. My 10 pts will breach in a single Slay (now I'm at 5). Somebody with 100 pts will take a Slay, shrug, and get their armour fixed. This is true in general - people with less armour breach a lot more, since it runs out way more quickly and large hits can take out all of it at once.

Item 5, limiting the number of people who can smith a person at once, is a good idea - my 10 pts will be done in two minutes at most, whereas 100 pts will now take much longer. No more smithing circle that send out heavy armourers in one minute. I like this idea.

[Sierra Katrian]

The first item misses the point entirely. The problem is that some people have insane amounts of armour and it gets near infinite with smiths, and they are way better than people with small amounts of armour. Having breaches be even worse than they are now disproportionally negatively effects people with small amounts of armour. My 10 pts will breach in a single Slay (now I'm at 5). Somebody with 100 pts will take a Slay, shrug, and get their armour fixed. This is true in general - people with less armour breach a lot more, since it runs out way more quickly and large hits can take out all of it at once.

We aren't trying to screw the low-armour people with this, we are trying to bring down the high-armour people. With our current system, it would take someone with 100AP 48 breaches to get down to 4AP. With our new system it would take someone with 100AP 5 breaches to get to 3AP. It evens the playing field and will make people fight smarter.

[Chèvrelier]

I agree that the percentage based breach system doesn't directly speak to the disparity of armour values. Ideally I would love to see the armour values of plate, chain and studded leather to all come down a point, but this is tremendously unpopular and doesn't look possible. 

What this system does do is make breaches relevant to high armour players and it also really helps with points 2 and 3 allowing us to run attrition combat, and limit the infinite battlefield effectiveness of high armour players.

[Marek]

Could you not make it simpler and balanced for lower armor characters by doing something like breaching reduces the value of armor to each location by 1. So a 4 point plate armor user, after 2 breaches, is equivalent to someone in studded leather, and at 4 breaches they are at a minimum amount that the rules team thinks is fair. Something like armor can't be breached below X number? (I'm sorry, I'm still a new player so my ideas could be dumb lol)

[Marek]

Balanced for new players in that they hit that minimum can't be reduced below level sooner, but the total reduction is much less painful perhaps for them in the end because lowest amount = like... 10 ?

[Lilith Caia]

It certainly makes breaches more relevant to higher AP players - while also making things significantly more difficult for low AP players. And high AP players don't breach nearly as much (you can wait until you're just at 30 and then go get fixed). So... eh? It's way easier to avoid breaches if you have high AP. Not very helpful for the goal of evening the playing field.